Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 14

May 14

Category:Soda Den games

• Propose deleting Category:Soda Den games (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: I am not sure if categories with a single page (or less than a few) is allowed. Therefore, I am bringing this to discussion. I am putting and for the same reason, since Twinkle (the userscript) doesn't me do that. JuniperChill (talk) 21:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to mention 'Category:BlankMediaGames games' and one other but for some reason, it isn't appearing. JuniperChill (talk) 21:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Art festivals in the United States

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: withdrawn (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Propose renaming Category:Art festivals in the United States to Category:Visual arts festivals in the United States

Nominator's rationale: The name is too similar to Category:Arts festivals in the United States, creating confusion about which articles and categories belong in which. Vegantics (talk) 17:42, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose -- Upon further research I now understand that this is a (admittedly confusing) standard across Wikipedia. I'm not sure if I can retract a discussion but no longer feel the discussion is needed. Vegantics (talk) 18:03, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  @Vegantics As nominator, you can vote Withdraw, as long as nobody has given a vote in support of your proposal. Then the discussion will be speedily closed. :) NLeeuw (talk) 18:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you! I appreciate your help. Vegantics (talk) 18:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Question Seems okay, but we don't have any Category:Visual arts festivals cat (tree) yet. Does it overlap with Category:Visual arts competitions, Category:Visual arts conferences and/or Category:Visual arts exhibitions? The latter has Category:Art festivals as a child, so that seems to be an apt parent. On the other hand, do all current items in Category:Art festivals in the United States fit the "visual arts" domain? Category:Arts festivals by type suggests a lot of other domains. If you could answer those questions, we might have a better idea what you are proposing. NLeeuw (talk) 18:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  I appreciate the questions. In reviewing Category:Art festivals in the United States, which is described as intended for "festivals focused on the visual arts," I noticed some articles which do not seem applicable. I suspect this is because editors made the same mistake that I did of confusing it with Category:Arts festivals in the United States. However I now realize that this is a bigger standard across Wikipedia and would require a much larger, more extensive discussion. Vegantics (talk) 18:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  You're welcome. Would you like to start somewhere else, or could we use this case as an example to set a precedent for future discussions? I should add I've never been to the United States and visuals arts are quite outside my area of expertise (hence the questions for clarification), but I would like to help you out in finding the best way of categorising all these articles. Personally, I find the current category tree quite confusing, so it's a good idea to discuss how we could improve it. NLeeuw (talk) 18:19, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  I think it does need to be addressed, but I want to do some additional research into how extensive this is and how much renaming would be required. I'm not equipped to lead such a discussion and would rather drop it for the time being. Vegantics (talk) 18:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  That's okay. As I said above, you can vote to Withdraw your own proposal. Take your time to your time to work out what you would like to discuss, and then come back some time with a new proposal. Good luck! NLeeuw (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Withdraw Upon further research I now understand that this is a (admittedly confusing) standard across Wikipedia. Vegantics (talk) 18:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

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The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States politicians killed during the Civil War

• Propose renaming Category:United States politicians killed during the Civil War to Category:Politicians killed in the American Civil War

Nominator's rationale: per article title American Civil War. This was opposed for speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

copy of speedy discussion

Category:United States politicians killed during the Civil War to Category:Politicians killed in the American Civil War - this new name is shorter and less ambiguous, as the category lists both Union and Confederate politicians who died in the ACW. AHI-3000 (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC) Whereas the argument is compelling, I do not think this is a speedy case. Ymblanter (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC) @Ymblanter: So why is this not suited for speedy renaming? AHI-3000 (talk) 03:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC) It should satisfy to one of the above criteria, and I can not see which one. Ymblanter (talk) 05:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@AHI-3000 and Ymblanter: pinging contributors to speedy discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:09, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:48, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• Conditional support per nom, but I need clarifications first: why is "United States" proposed to be omitted? So that it could also include Confederate politicians and perhaps foreign politicians who somehow got killed in the ACW? That would mean it no longer fits in the Category:20th-century American politicians (should be Category:19th-century American politicians), and more broadly the Category:American people tree, since Confederates and foreigners were arguably not "United States citizens" for the duration of the ACW (at least from the Confederate POV). In fact, I see the category currently already contains Confederate politicians, so removing "United States" is a good idea, but then we should remove Category:20th-century American politicians as a parent. But that may be a bit too legally speaking on my part . NLeeuw (talk) 18:13, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• At least 20th century is a clear mistake, I changed it to 19th. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:14, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Zzap!64 Gold Medal Award winners

• Propose deleting Category:Zzap!64 Gold Medal Award winners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: A category for winners of "Gold Medal", awarded by a video game magazine. No article on it. See also this discussion. soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 04:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  @Marcocapelle, can you explain how OCAWARD applies here? Toadette^Edit! 11:26, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  • The award is not a defining characteristic of these video games. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. Toadette^Edit! 11:22, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

  Note: was accepted via WP:AFC/C. Toadette^Edit! 11:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:UCLA Department of Earth Planetary and Space Sciences alumni

• Propose merging Category:UCLA Department of Earth Planetary and Space Sciences alumni to Category:University of California, Los Angeles alumni

Nominator's rationale: Degrees from a school within a university may be defining, a degree from a specific department isn't typically defining. See for a similar case Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_September_23#Category:Harvard_University_Department_of_Psychology_alumni Mason (talk) 04:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ship names with ukrainian origin

• Propose deleting Category:Ship names with ukrainian origin (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:TRIVIALCAT. Mellk (talk) 03:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:01, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. (But if kept, it should be renamed to "Ukrainian")Mason (talk) 04:16, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Paintings of Hebrew Bible themes

• Propose merging Category:Paintings of Hebrew Bible themes to Category:Paintings based on the Old Testament

Nominator's rationale: merge, a split between Hebrew Bible and Old Testament does not make too much sense in biblical art which largely originates from Christianity. Marcocapelle (talk) 13:40, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

• Reverse merge, Hebrew Bible is the main tree here. NLeeuw (talk) 18:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

• It is not a "main" tree per se. Old Testament is different (order of bible books), broader (with deuterocanonical books) and more applicable to topics that are more exclusively associated with Christianity. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

  Whether deuterocanonical books are included depends entirely on denomination. "Hebrew Bible" is the name for the 39 books common to Judaism and Christianity, and I see no reason why Christianity should be regarded as more important.

  On second thought, it might be better to upmerge Category:Paintings based on the Old Testament to its parents, as it is currently a mostly redundant layer. How does that sound? NLeeuw (talk) 22:19, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

  Re "Whether deuterocanonical books are included depends entirely on denomination", as things stand the "deuterocanonical books" category is within the "Old Testament" one, so isn't this an argument against the status quo as well? But it's resolved if Category:Paintings based on the Old Testament is upmerged to its parents, leaving the subdivisions of the (Christian) Bible as "Hebrew Bible", "deuterocanonical books" and "New Testament" – with no "Old Testament"? I hope I've got that right. Ham II (talk) 16:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

• Keep, but Upmerge & redirect parent Category:Paintings based on the Old Testament (now tagged). There is a Paintings tree within the Art tree, and there is a Hebrew Bible tree within the Old Testament tree. However, I have just removed Choir of San Lorenzo from Category:Paintings based on the Old Testament (as it seemed mistaken or unjustified), leaving only the subcats Paintings of Hebrew Bible themes and Paintings of people in the deuterocanonical books, so there is little justification for keeping that layer at present. – Fayenatic London 12:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
  • In fact, having a gap for OT in that layer (paintings by theme) would be consistent with the hierarchy for paintings of people – we have Category:Paintings of Hebrew Bible people but not Category:Paintings of Old Testament people. – Fayenatic London 14:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
• Disclosure: I have just created Category:Hebrew Bible themes in art, which I judged to be a worthwhile and missing category. – Fayenatic London 12:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Tokyo Musashino United FC

• Propose deleting Category:Tokyo Musashino United FC (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:05, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Striking vote considering below comment. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:12, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 09:04, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
• Keep - I have expanded, so there's sufficient content to justify keeping. However, needs a move per WP:C2D to Category:Yokogawa Musashino FC to match the parent article name. @Pppery and Marcocapelle:. GiantSnowman 09:08, May 2024 (IOS)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:49, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Architects

• Propose deleting Category:Arthur Edmunds
• Propose deleting Category:Bill Lapworth
• Propose deleting Category:Halsey Chase Herreshoff
• Propose deleting Category:John Hawks (architect)
• Propose deleting Category:Lyle Hess
• Propose deleting Category:Philip Rhodes
• Propose deleting Category:Samuel Sloan (architect)
• Propose deleting Category:Emile Weil
• Propose renaming and reparenting Category:Michael Middleton Dwyer to Category:Works by Michael Middleton Dwyer

Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:OCEPON. These categories only contain an eponymous article and a subcategory, so having the subcategory suffices. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. Mason (talk) 01:04, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: As this is a larger nomination, giving an extra week for objections.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 01:07, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ossetian male writers

• Propose merging Category:Ossetian male writers to Category:Ossetian writers

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. Non-defining intersection between ethnicity, occupation, and gender. Mason (talk) 16:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose; we already have similar categories of ethnciity/occuptation/gender, such as Category:African-American male writers, Category:Yoruba women writers, and Category:Basque women writers. Categorizing writers by gender and nationality is quite common as well; see Category:Male writers by nationality. ForsythiaJo (talk) 17:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

• Merge per WP:OCEGRS, Ossetian male writers is not a notable topic in its own right. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 23:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (talk · he/him) 00:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)